this post was submitted on 17 Oct 2026
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Hey, I was raised on the premise that women want to be left alone and be independent which taught me that there is no environment or time where an approach would be appreciated. In return I assumed that in time and when ready, they would be the ones to initiate. Guess they really haven't held up their end of the bargain. Or maybe I'm just a dumb fool for assuming that.
When they say they want to dismantle gender roles, they only mean the gender roles that they perceive as disadvantageous for them. They still want men to perform the gender roles that are disadvantageous for men.
Taking the risk of making the first move is just one example. They don't want that responsibility, they just want guys who aren't attractive to them to stop trying to make a first move. Might as well rephrase it as "Just give up, loser. No one will ever love you" because that's basically the sentiment that's hiding behind "stop approaching women," especially when it's followed up with something like "why won't men notice me?"
That's a lie. You never know a result of approaching. She might be not in mood or crazy or friendly. You are not doing bad things by approaching. You are not r aping her. Just approach and if you don't like her personality back off
I thing you and I have vastly different experiences with rejection.
I may be getting downvoted for this but women do want to be approached, you just have to have 400 IQ and make it work.
As an autistic person I already fail because I cannot read their expressions, but some women will do things like touch your forearms or smile a lot at you. These signals like any other needs careful thinking because some women just like to play and flirt.
Women in 2026 do not want to feel like they're being preyed on, having a welcoming but safe body language is an extremely difficult game.
I think our societal norms for dating will shift as no one likes the dating apps, who knows what's next.
If you're autistic and you fail at reading facial expressions, study them, academically. Like, find papers on this, read up on it.
Its more to do with microexpressions and minor details, and the underlying mechanisms of anatomy and how emotions affect the human body.
Think of the difference between a real smile, where the upper cheeks and lower/outer eyes shift upward along with the smile, vs a fake/forced smile that only involves the mouth.
Think about how a major difference between dogs and wolves is that dogs, as our human partners, literally evolved more eyebrow muscles to be able to communicate their emotional state to us more effectively.
Its not that you can't read expressions, its that your model for doing so is wrong, its too simplistic.
You don't need a 400 IQ, you just need patience and humility. Its not a one size fits all perfect rule set that works 100% the same on every different person, but we are all human, with fundamentally the same basic anatomy and physiological wiring.
Nah, I'm full on defensive and guarded until very clear words are said
I mean, absolutely fair, I'm just trying to say this is a thing you can study independently, and then when you're ready, have as a kind of improved toolset for evaluating social interactions.
Though I also totally understand just being fucking traumatized by normies seemingly expecting you to read their minds and then getting angry at you for not being able to do so.
I'm autistic too, it has been a struggle, lol.
Not trying to pressure you into more immediate, complex social interactions, no, not if you are not comfortable with that.
I'm saying its a thing you can read up on, alone, independent study kind of thing. Gradually, eventually useful, when you are ready.
You don't have any women in your friend group? Most relationships are with people who start out as friends-of-friends that grow closer during social interactions over time.
The women I had had in a friend group like that, that I'd known since childhood, got married and/or a demanding career, and then stopped having time to talk or do anything social.
And they don't even have kids, life is still just too demanding for a social life to also exist.
And and, I am realtively odd in that I am a guy who grew up with more female close friends than male friends, who got invited to the otherwise girls-only Buffy/Firefly/etc semi-regular watch nights.
But your whole reply here is a non sequitir...
...he's saying that women broadly, you know, women he doesn't already know, loudly said "don't approach us", so, he didn't.
Combine that with late stage capitalism is utterly exhausting, for everyone, and ... women broadly put the burden on themselves to initiate any new relationships with new men, and then did not initiate any new platonic relationships with new men.
Your reply is 'wait you just don't already know a bunch of women?' Yes, obviously, duh, its inherent in the premise of their statement, in the context of the post.
The whole thing at discussion here is meeting new people. Your answer is 'what, you don't just already know people?'
This is an antagonistically useless thing to say.
My reply was not to "the whole thing at discussion here", it was to a specific comment from LouNeko, and about how he was raised in such a way that he belies that "there is no environment or time where an approach would be appreciated."
That's not what he said. What he said was this:
He didn't say "women" loudly said anything; only that he was "raised on the premise", with no indication of who it was pushing that idea on him. Where did you get the idea that he's affected by something that (some) women loudly said? Not from his comment, which is the sole basis for my reply.
I am willing to accept that my words might be useless. I utterly eject your accusation of antagonism. On the contrary, I'm deeply sympathetic to LouNeko's plight. I asked about the nature of his friend group because it is an important aspect to escaping loneliness, not to give him shit about it. Ultimately my goal was to suggest to him that there is a crack in that premise, a route to escape through. That is to say, while it might be inappropriate to make passes at strangers, the friends of your friends are not strangers, and companionship might be there for him.
As for you: In my opinion, you likely misinterpreted my comment as antagonistic due to a hyper-vigilant instinct to white knight the victims of male loneliness (which is noble), or to defend men from women (which is kinda weird, but being broken-hearted makes us lash out, so I get it).
But your decision to reply to the fantasy of what you thought I meant rather than what I actually wrote is just a waste of my time and yours.
Holy shit, you are a clown.
Where could he have possibly gotten the idea that women said they wanted to be left alone?
You have to be delusional to seriously ask this, either that or somehow entirely unaware of the last decade and a half of social media, of the internet, filled with literally millions of videos of women saying this.
You are sympathetic to Lou in the sense that you pity him after demeaning him. You are sympathetic, not empathetic, you concieve of him as an alien other. Your 'advice' was just an insult, it was utterly useless, and obviously so.
You'd have to think that he had a friend circle that he just wasn't leveraging, for your 'advice' to make any sense, which would imply he is an idiot who couldn't think of that on his own.
You are now pathologizing me like you pathologized him, and you finish spending a bunch of time writing to me to conclude that writing a reply to me was a waste of time, another contradiction hiding another insult.
You can keep honking your clown horn if you want, I'll never be communicating with such a monstrously disingenuous person as yourself ever again.
I would certainly hate to meet the imaginary person you think you're arguing with. It must be awful to live with such a creature inhabiting your brain. But I gladly accept your offer to cut off communication with me, since you seemed determined to use me as a target for undeserved rage. If you'd like to see what an actual insult looks like, then just this once I will oblige:
You are very tedious company.
I do, but they’re all in long term relationships.
What makes you think I have friends if I don't leave home.
Spiders and stray cats count
Friends are much like vampires. They cannot cross the boundaries of your dwelling unless invited in.
That's fair, making friends be hard.
Wow...profunnndo....
🤔
Nope, not once in my life. But granted, I studied for a male dominated degree, I work in a male dominated area and I can't afford "attractive" hobbies. Being a first gen immigrant in a very conservative public school system doesn't exactly leave you with a blooming social circle either.
I'm also severely depressed, poor, not exactly charismatic and not easy on the eyes.
I know, I am a real catch :) /s
I'm funny tho, at least so I've been told irl. I was also told that being funny would be enough. But turns out it's more of a deal-closer not the entire deal. If all you have is "funny", you might as well put on the makeup and go be a clown.
I have a steady job as the Universes bad example.
You study chemistry at that school, right?
Some chemicals are very reactive. Others need the right conditions. You’re waiting for some free radical to come along, kick off a reaction, and somehow leave you with a stable bond.
Sure, that can happen randomly, but you improve your odds by getting compatible ingredients in the same place and supplying a little activation energy. You don’t have to force the chemistry—you just have to give it the conditions to happen.
If you keep everything sealed in separate bottles, your whole experiment depends on somebody accidentally knocking over the shelf.
I did have two women make an attempt. But my autistic ass was too oblivious to understand until someone explained it to me later on. One of them even undressed down to her underwear in front of me, despite me only knowing her for like 2 days. Apparently that could be a sign, together with the fact that she was weirdly obsessed with me. Unfortunately my cousin got incredibly jealous of her, so she ended the friendship with her. Never met her again after that (we live 200 km apart and didn't have each other's number).
I'm not sure if I'm happy dor you that this happened to you or sad.
I wouldn't exactly call myself Sherlock Holmes when it comes to social engagement, but I feel like emotional intelligence is one of my strengths. I can definetly, with 100% certainty say no women has ever even had a single neuron fire in my direction. Hell I'd argue that all my conversation that I had with women one-on-one outside of work and family would fit on roughly 10 pages at 11pt. I can and have easily entertained a whole crowd of people but in the end that's all I've ever been, a talking head.
I hope you read this full comment. I spent some time on it and I am happy to help if you want to DM.
I’d recommend therapy, look into sliding scale or other public mental health services. They might be non-existent, but there is also Telehealth services which might help with cost. If you have a job that offers benefits, even if they are poor, might have EAP benefits which you can usually use for a small handful of sessions for zero cost. Focus on finding a provider that takes EAP in your local area, and focus on finding low cost mental health services so you can continue care.
Start dressing better, go to a store with an employee (even if it’s a thrift store) and ask for their recommendations and opinions. Make sure they are well fitting, and if you can afford it, get some alterations or learn to sew.
Go to a stylist, not a barber or chain, before you go, ask them if they do consultations. Tell them you want a haircut that suits your face and you. I personally prefer to have women do this part. Once the haircut is done, take photos and videos of every angle. Have them show you how to style it yourself, then do it yourself, and have them correct it. Purchase the products they recommend, if cost is a concern, voice that and see if they can recommend different ones that fit your budget.
Take care of yourself, clean your ass, shower regularly, use shampoo and conditioner, groom yourself.
Take some time to pick out a good cologne/parfum. Don’t go overboard with it, but a good scent goes a long way! Spend some time, find a good salesperson who will actually HELP you instead of just handing samples out. Get a good parfum around $100 and a decent one at a lower price. It’s expensive, but it’s worth the investment.
Start finding clubs, meetups, small business groups, etc. something to become social, don’t worry about attracting your preferred partner. Even if the entire meetup is 100% your preferred partner, everyone is a friend. Make friends, push yourself, if you “click” with someone, say “hey, I really enjoyed talking with you, here is my phone number. Let’s talk more” you can also say “get coffee” or whatever.
If you like gaming, then add them on that, try and play with them.
People won’t reciprocate as much, so you’ll have to be the “active” friend who reaches out and sets up stuff.
Lots will fade, be rejected, or be ghosted. That’s okay, you are refining your social skills. It’s a muscle, you have to practice, exercise, etc.
Work on your apartment/bouse/whatever. Get toiletries for both genders, regardless of your preferences. Tampons, pads, conditioner, shampoo, some nicer towels.
Clean your bathroom, keep it tidy and smelling nice. Clean your whole apartment. Trash cans in every room.
Connect with old friends, be social, push yourself.
Lastly, actually dating. Online dating is hit or miss, but have multiple single photos, 1-2 max with friends. Humor works, I met my partner by putting together a slide deck for my online dating profile. Stuff like “pictures of animals that I do not own” and pictures of me with random animals. Make light fun of yourself, I had a bulleted list of “reasons why you should date me” and a few bullets were “not bad at sex”, “gives unlimited foot massages”, “has many hoodies for you to steal” and the last was “please”. The slide deck increased my matches by a few orders of magnitudes, because I showed that I am chill, I like animals, and I have a sense of humor. Look at online forums for things like tinder, not really for advice, but to see the things that they make fun of. For men it’s pictures of them with fish or dead animals. Don’t do things like that.
If/when you get a date, show up a bit early, don’t drink or consume drugs, be well groomed, break out your fancy parfum. At this point you’ve practiced your social skills, so just treat this person as if they are a human. Not an object. Don’t push or have expectations.
A small gift like flowers or a trinket is okay. You can skip it for a first date.
Make sure to give them an opportunity to talk, they should give you an opportunity as well. Temper your interests, it’s okay to talk about your interests, but don’t go on a 40 minute rant. It’s also okay to catch yourself and go “oh I’m sorry, I just feel passionately about X” and let them have an opportunity to let you continue or not.
It’s okay if it doesn’t work out, I’ve been on many dates that went no where. Show you care and are engaged, even if they aren’t someone you see a future with they can be a friend.
Be conscious of their safety and health. Give them your jacket if it’s cold, hold the door, etc. make sure they make it home safe, if you have their number, send them a text asking if they got home safe and if appropriate, the next day express that you enjoyed the date.
This is actually well articulated, sound advise.🥇
I appreciate the breakdown but first, I'm not in the US. Where I'm from we don't do therapy, we burn out, we have a mental breakdown, we cash in our sick days and after 2 weeks we're back to work. If your mental problems aren't directly work related, nobody gives a shit. Just as an example, the waiting period to get an appointment for every single therapist in my city is about 2+ years.
The short time I've been to the US I have to say, dating in the US seems to be easy mode. Trust me, whatever social rules you think apply in the US don't fly in most European countries. Theres no way to "enter" social circles, you're either in or you're out. Being an immigrant, I know this to well.
And I don't need a step-by-step tutorial on how to put myself together. I'm not a 16 year old. I'm in my 30s, and I spend a good chunk of my life trying to play by the book, with zero success. Just to make myself clear, not "little" success, zero success. I've never even gotten a phone number. That feels like an anomaly, a statistical impossibility even. But it is what it is.
Besides, life has gotten so expensive that I couldn't even afford any single thing you've listed. I'm at a point where 50 bucks are life changing. The economy is completely stacked against single people, always has been. Of course with a decent job that would be different but I'm overworked and barely make above minimum wage. I basically live paycheck to paycheck while my friends are buying houses. We all went to the same school and graduated together, so there's really no excuse for me being an absolute loser.
It's not like I act like a crazy person in public. As much as I dislike self-censoring, I dial down the inappropriate humor and keep the topics lighthearted with new people. I just have accepted that there's something about me that women absolutely despise, something invisible to me and frankly to other guys. I have zero issues hanging out with dudes, even randoms. I'm a silver tongued smooth talker with the boys, but the second I turn any of that confidence to a girl... Let's say I have seen enough smiles fade and eyes roll.
And you're under the assumption that I want a partner in the first olace, that's not true. What I genuenly want with every fibre of my being is to just die and get this over with. So much so, that I've been deliberately ignoring 2 weeks of hard stomach pain because I'm hoping it's colon cancer - gotta let it simmer and spread a little before giving the doctors a heart attack.
I'd be an absolute catastrophic burden on any serious partner. My brutal mental disorders have destroyed friendships with a strong lifelong foundation. How the hell am I supposed to develop a romantic relationship from a fleeting interaction? There is simply no winning in this situation. If feel like somebody checkmated me and people are sitting around the board thinking of pieces to move to somehow turn the game around. There are no moves left only lessons to learn.
Same situation as OP, and i don't really wanna date my close friend anyway. But on the plus side friendzone is very comfortable, i'm not lonely despite living alone and only meet them occasionally, and i have cats as companion.
It’s not so much about dating close friends, but about friends of friends—people you don’t necessarily know, but who are not strangers, on account of your shared mutual friend. A friendly introduction by your mutual puts you a billion steps ahead of the rando at the coffee shop awkwardly trying to start up a conversation with you.
I wouldn't be surprised if that's becoming more rare these days. I met my wife online, worked out since our social circles never crossed
I’m sure you’re right, but at least when it comes to dating apps, those tend to reward people with conventional appeal. People whose best qualities only become apparent when you get to know them can find online dating options to be kind of a dead end.
I'm fat and average height lol, I guess my face isn't terrible though.
It did take a very long time and was absolutely soul crushing for a while. Took 1 or 2 years, I got lucky. In that time only ever met 1 person online and we got married.
Doesn't really follow from
There's a lot of spaces between "don't hit on the waitress" and "chat with friends of friends at a birthday party"
Of course, you do have to enter the world to be perceived by the world.
Hey everyone, look at this user! He says he gets invited to birthday parties
... what?
Yes, Statement 1 does logically follow from Statement 2.
Statement 2 is broad and unqualified, universal.
If you accept that as true, Statement 1 definitely does logically follow from it.
If I tell you, "I want to be left alone, and be independent", then the inescapable conclusion is that either I will initiate interaction with you, or if you initiate, you are violating my wishes.
Being independent means that one is the acting agent, not the one being acted upon, it means being the initiator or instigator, being proactive instead of reactive.
If you want to say that Statement 2 actually is qualified, has actual specific conditions where 'leave me alone and let me be independent' does not apply, well, then we would need those conditions to be clearly stated.
The entire problem is that they are not clearly stated, and that every single individual has different specific conditions, unique to them, which must be communicated before they can be understood.
I'm not 18 anymore. All, and I mean all friends and friends of friends are either married, longterm or with children. Do you know what it's like to be the only one with any realationships past your 30s? Not just "single", "no relationships". People look at you differently, people talk to you differently, people treat you differently. Especially your inner circle of friends where something like that is common knowledge. At least with strangers you can play on the novelty of the conversation and pretend your life isn't in shambles before they start to catch on.
Besides depression already did it's thing and I haven't had contact with any of my friends for over a year. So I guess its safe to say, no more birthday invites for me...
I think root comment is simply saying that they didn't want to "bother" women.
But reality is that when initiating any kind of social contact, you have to risk being a "bother". Over time you learn to judge the risk better, but there's always a risk. If you want to form relationships you just have to take the chance and go ahead anyways. Even if you're afraid of being a creep, or being annoying, or bothering them. You have to use your best judgement and initiate when you feel it's ok.
Right. Some people seem to never really develop that judgement.