this post was submitted on 03 Nov 2026
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[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 hour ago (3 children)

someone getting convicted for rape would make them unemployable way beyond the point most people would feel further punishment is reasonable

Oh really? Because I haven't seen proof of that. Even Brock Turner has a job.

[–] Witchfire@lemmy.world 8 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago) (3 children)

The entire Epstein class is proof of that. Hell, the legal system treats rapists better than it treats trans or bipoc people

[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 hour ago

It feels really silly for them to build up these strawman arguments about how rapists have their lives ruined when we have the current administration in power right now.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 4 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

That's why I said "unless they're rich." Obviously the ruling class gets special privileges.

[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

A 20-year review of reported rape and sexual assault cases found that 89% were “founded” by law enforcement, meaning police determined that the crime more than likely occurred.

But only 8% of reported rape and sexual assault cases ended in conviction.

In other words, police believed most reports, but very few cases led to the perpetrator’s conviction. Survivors can be believed and still not get the legal outcome they seek.

It's not just the rich that don't get prosecuted.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 2 points 55 minutes ago (1 children)

That's pretty bad but I don't think it has much to do with the subject? How the actual court system treats rapists (way too leniently) and how the entire rest of society does (the subject of this argument) are two different topics. That said the US court system (and probably most others) is famously skewed towards the rich; it's just that with what we might call a miss rate of 90% there's not much room for class divisions to be decisive on a population level.

[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 1 points 52 minutes ago* (last edited 52 minutes ago) (1 children)

You brought up how being convicted of rape with make the rapists unemployable.

So I brought statistics about how low the conviction rates are for rapists.

It is NOT just rich people that don't get prosecuted for rape and sexual assault.

[–] StabbingSky@lemmy.zip 2 points 47 minutes ago* (last edited 46 minutes ago) (1 children)

The conviction rate isn't relevant to the conversation of how the conviction impacts ones life after their sentence is up.

The reason for the low conviction rate is because there's usually very little evidence, and to convict it should be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 0 points 43 minutes ago* (last edited 43 minutes ago)

The conviction rate is relevant when it is being argued that being convicted of rape destroys the rapists life and only the Epstein class gets away with rape.

It is not just the Epstein class that gets away with rape.

A 20-year review of reported rape and sexual assault cases found that 89% were “founded” by law enforcement, meaning police determined that the crime more than likely occurred.

But only 8% of reported rape and sexual assault cases ended in conviction.

In other words, police believed most reports, but very few cases led to the perpetrator’s conviction. Survivors can be believed and still not get the legal outcome they seek.

Justice requires more than recognizing harm. It requires systems prepared to move cases forward and support survivors through what comes next.

Source

[–] StabbingSky@lemmy.zip 2 points 49 minutes ago

The Epstein class are the exception to the rules. The working class is held to different standards.

[–] NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

I'm going to have to dig around for evidence for the broader developed world so I can make a decent case (or conclude that there's no such case and amend/retract what I said), but since your example is from America for now I can refer you to the Human Rights Watch link. But also do you have a source for that?

[–] Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Yeah, that only doesn't happens to the Epstein class. To these people down the pyramid, is a hell. Even worse when it comes to false claims.

[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Brock Turner is not a part of the Epstein class. You've already proven your statement false.

[–] Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org -2 points 1 hour ago (2 children)

Well, that man wasn't exactly poor, not even mid class. Even if he wasn't near-the-top, he's still just one exception to the rule. One single exception can't prove anything false, as it's just anecdothical evidence unless it's against an universal proposition.

[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

You have had many comments moderated because of your defense of rapists. People can see through you.

[–] Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org -1 points 53 minutes ago (1 children)

What the fuck, I never defended the fucking rapists. What you're doing is defamation.

CW: SA and FAHell, I've even been raped two fucking times in my life, one of them when I was a fucking child. I know what I'm talking about because I suffered that and also I have suffered of one false claim. Neither of the two are placid stuff.

I've only been trying to nuance things a bit, because most of people jump directly to "trust the (supposed) victims even when there's no single evidence", and I can't deffend that. But apparently that's defending sexual abusers. But I'm not, I'm just defending the presumption of innocence: someone has to be considered innocent unless proven otherwise.

[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 1 points 50 minutes ago (1 children)

Your moderation history and past comments are open for everyone to see.

[–] Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org 0 points 35 minutes ago (1 children)

Yeah, and precisely because of that is that I say what I'm saying, because anything I have said supports rapists.

Is by any case saying that rapists should live the same as their victims, but with added torture, something that a rapist supporter would say?

[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 0 points 33 minutes ago* (last edited 32 minutes ago) (1 children)

Is by any case saying that rapists should live the same as their victims, but with added torture, something that a rapist supporter would say?

Now you're supporting torture and cruel and unusual punishments.

[–] Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org 0 points 18 minutes ago* (last edited 18 minutes ago) (1 children)

Because they deserve it. Now you're saying that a rapist has to be treated better than how they treated their victims? That's not justice, and that makes their calculus of costs-benefits be always positive to them.

This analogy illustrates it very well: you give just a minor reprimand for a child’s action everytime they form a tantrum, and they'll learn that making a tantrum is not that bad because the worse they'll get is a minor reprimand, not something lasting as being grounded.

[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 0 points 16 minutes ago (1 children)

Rapists should not be infantilized and treated like they are children throwing a tantrum. Restorative justice is important.

[–] Kangae_Hishiryo@scribe.disroot.org 0 points 9 minutes ago

I don't know, I think that the behaviorism applies just perfectly to them, I think is rarely the occasion when such a scum will change to better, and that's even worse when you take into account that most of these people are psychopaths, and/or sociopaths, and/or patologically narcissists, so they'll also look for their own benefit and comfort, so restorative justice will be counterproductive to them.

Maybe I'm being too extremists when it comes to justice, but I just hate these kind of people that freely cause harm to other people. The only acceptable harm is the one done in defense of the innocent. They won't understand unless you pay them with the exact same coin they gave to you, because they're already morally bankrupt and their brain is dysfunctional.

[–] velma@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 hour ago

he’s still just one exception to the rule.

No he's not.

A 20-year review of reported rape and sexual assault cases found that 89% were “founded” by law enforcement, meaning police determined that the crime more than likely occurred.

But only 8% of reported rape and sexual assault cases ended in conviction.

In other words, police believed most reports, but very few cases led to the perpetrator’s conviction. Survivors can be believed and still not get the legal outcome they seek.