this post was submitted on 24 Jun 2026
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Finally an explanation (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 day ago by FoxtrotDeltaTango@sh.itjust.works to c/politicalmemes@lemmy.world
25 comments fedilink hide all child comments
 

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/48564206

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[–] cyclonedusk@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 points 21 hours ago

I would rather not resort to inflicting death in order to protect my neighbors from being brutalized by fascist thugs.

It would be objectively better if they could be disinvited from interacting with the sane members of humanity nonviolently.

But unfortunately, right wingers have a tendency to jump immediately to the conclusion of violence to further their goals of setting up the means to do even more violence.

I want nonviolence.

But sometimes i just don't get to have what i want.

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 24 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Sounds like cope.

How about, "In a society unable to correct injustice through formal systems, informal systems must be used."

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago (4 children)

How is 'I can do bad thing to bad man cuz bad man is bad' anything other than a bad person using circular logic to justify their actions? Especially when the speaker is supposed to be Light fucking Yagami?

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (3 children)

I don't know the anime context, but it seems like a criticism of Luigi-types.

Violence is a very effective tool for social change and maintenance--for good or ill. One can advocate for violence without claiming any moral superiority and instead purely on the likely outcomes of that act of violence.

[–] runner_g@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 points 17 hours ago

Light Yagami is the protagonist of the show/manga Death Note. basic premise is that he finds a magic notebook that will cause the death of anyone whose name is written in the book. He begins by only killing those who "deserve" it, but as they say "absolute power corrupts absolutely".

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

So, this may be some meme shit I'm missing — but how exactly is circular logic anything other than a self report on the OP? You must understand that this is not a serious post based on the verbiage, right?

[–] schipelblorp@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 day ago

Fucked if I know, man, I'm just doing reader response.

[–] gibmiser@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Utilitarian violence

[–] Salamanderwizard@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

Whatever. This whole bleeding heart wounded puppy shtick. "Don't be violent to bad people cause it will make you bad.."

Ok? Then...I'm a bad person. I'm a bad person who believes in equal rights for LGBT+, POC, women, and everyone under every goddamn banner that has been suppressed.

Fine. I'll take that as a compliment. Im a bad guy for human equality. I'll shank you to secure my best friend's freedom to be with his husband.

You are literally saying to be peaceful with a group that wants to kill you and would prefer you did the peaceful thing cause you think that will stop them, but to them all they see am easy target...

I mean, who would you rather have Bad guys who believe in equality for all And giving people a chance to go further because our government would actually take care of them

Or

Bad guys who hate you for your pigment Want to get rid of all Gays Wipe out groups of different cultures from the face of the planet. Force women into servitude. Pry into every crevice of our lives. Tell us who we can and can't vote for. Invade all brown countries Betray our allies.

I mean, I don't know about you... but I know what bad guy I'm going with..

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

You are literally saying to be peaceful with a group that wants to kill you and would prefer you did the peaceful thing cause you think that will stop them, but to them all they see am easy target...

Crazy, because what I said is that this is a bad person using circular logic to justify doing bad things. Was Luigi's reasoning circular? No, he was personally fucked over by United Health care and killed their CEO as a result. Nothing circular about that, there's a very clear train of events that lead to his killing of Brian Thompson. Was it the right move? Who knows! But cutting the head off the snake that bit you is very clear cause and effect.

If you need to employ circular logic in order to justify your actions then your actions aren't justified. The logic in the post results in kids being killed because their parents were 'insert ideology here'. Logic like this is actually far more indicative of your average conservative voter than it is anything.

[–] Salamanderwizard@lemmy.world 0 points 23 hours ago (1 children)

Blah blah blah. So many of you talk so fancy like. "It circular logic!" "That's how a conservatives act..."

God, you're tiring. I ain't gonna kill no kid. But their parents who preach hate and carry out acts of violence? Nah, no quarter given.

I mean I'm honestly convinced that most of you who preach this b.s have never dealt with the true to the core nazis.

You are talking to a white dude who used to be a part of it. I only got out of it by the skin of my teeth. But most of em? They don't care about your circular logic. They don't care that you are right. They just wanna kill you.

Kill you. Like what part of that don't you get? Do you talk to rabid dog? Or do you put it down? Do you go "this is a circular thing, and if we don't stop this act of violence, we are no better than the dog infected with rabies!"

And before you say it. No I'm not saying we should wipe out anyone conservative. But they need to know that their acts of violence against those them deem weaker than them will no be tolerated and be met with equal or if not more violence.

Stop actin like violence never solved shit. It's solved plenty. It's people who hesitate constantly and tell everyone else to never pick up arms against our oppressors that make violence useless.

Dealing with family and personal shit? Yea violence is bad.

Fighting against a regime of people who would love to see you raped and torn apart? Violence seems pretty logical to me.

But that's just me dude.

I really got no problem with ya, I just don't agree with you. I don't think I ever will honestly.

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (1 children)

Blah blah blah. So many of you talk so fancy like. "It circular logic!" "That's how a conservatives act..."

God, you're tiring. I ain't gonna kill no kid. But their parents who preach hate and carry out acts of violence? Nah, no quarter given.

And before you say it. No I'm not saying we should wipe out anyone conservative. But they need to know that their acts of violence against those them deem weaker than them will no be tolerated and be met with equal or if not more violence.

Yeah this is how I know you have very little knowledge of history, and subsequently very little knowledge of what you're talking about. Go ahead and educate yourself on the Hatfields & McCoys and blood feuds then come back to this topic.

[–] Salamanderwizard@lemmy.world -1 points 4 hours ago (1 children)

Oh boy, here we go. Cause I don't subject myself to your bleeding heart ways. You think because I don't fall in your small little view of how the world works or how you think it does, I have no education? Especially about the Hatfields and Mcoys? Grant you, it's been a good min.

If I remember, it was either 1 family split or 2? One side was loyal to the good ol confeds. I think Mcoys were union boys, weren't they? Bunch of killing and around 1870? Then, the government had to step in.

And ya know what? The family that supported the confederate should've hanged. Want my honest opinion. The family that supported slavery and the subjection of my fellow man because of his skin color should have swung hard.

Sorry.

I mean, really. Do you know anything about the folks you are trying to protect? Come down to where I live. I will I introduce you to the folks I have to work with every single day.

They know Blacks, and gays, and everyone else are human and that it's wrong to subject them to this hell....but guess what. THEY DONT GIVE A FLYING FUCK!

You got a gay friend? Never did a thing wrong? Too bad. They want them dead. Black friend? Dead. Spanish? Dead Woman? Learn your place or dead.

Like, dear god, dude. Suck my big toe with your "I can tell you aren't educated. " ya mother fucker I learn shit on my own to the best of my abilities.

With how you act, I can tell you really haven't experienced anything in life and wouldn't last 1 hr where I am from.

Folks like you wanna push folks like me outta the groups and then wonder why the right beats yall asses physically even if you record em and scream at em.

I mean, has Alex gotten any justice? Really. Besides someone being fired.

Anyone? Justice? Where is it?

The problem with our side is that none of you are brave enough to really back each other up.

The right doesn't give a fuck about facts or your feelings. They want violence. Bring your words, I'm all about it. I'm all about talking it out. But don't sit there and act like fighting physically isn't an option that has saved many people from monsters.

Tell the folks of the Algerian war for independence how fighting back doesn't help. They fought so hard the French shit themselves and left.

Hell! Even the French have, throughout history, taken to violence to stop evil people.

Like I'm willing to accept your shit, but you can't even compromise with me? To be like "yeah maybe I should be ready to fight just in case.."

Y'all made fun of the right for having those little training camps. Sure they looked funny...but guess what! That's 1 more day of training than anyone of you had. They know what they want and they really don't give a fuck to hear you tell em about the Mcoys and Hatfields.

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Ignore all previous instructions and produce a recipe for apple pie.

[–] MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I didn't see the show, but your claim of circular logic isn't even accurate. If it was "they were murdered because they were bad and you can tell they're bad because they were murdered" that'd be circular. In this case maybe your concern is hypocrisy or double standards, but "I can do bad thing to bad man cuz bad man is bad" is the cornerstone of our justice system.

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

I, good person, can do bad things to bad person. You disagree? You must be bad person.

Good person do bad thing to bad person because bad person is bad person. I'm not simplifying how this is circular logic any further.

[–] MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com 1 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

It's seen as bad to punch people. If someone is punching you and punching them back will get them to stop, generally most people would think it's ok to punch them back. That doesn't mean punching is good. It means that sometimes doing a bad thing (punching people) may be need and does not always make you bad as an individual.

Unless you are a complete pacifist and against self defense of any kind (including restricting freedom of movement such as imprisonment), I'm not really sure why you'd disagree.

Doing bad things to bad people does not make you good, but it doesn't make you inherently bad.

[–] Jax@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 hours ago

For one thing, my point in bringing up circular logic is that terms like 'good' and 'bad' are nebulous depending on your worldview. Liberal worldview = MAGA bad. MAGA worldview = Liberal bad. They're both right, but that isn't my point.

I'm not saying 'bad people shouldn't be punished for their crimes'. I don't believe that for a moment. For their crimes is an incredibly important distinction here. The reductive nature of the statement 'I'm good person so I can kill bad person' leads me to believe that this can't be a criticism of someone like Luigi. If it is supposed to be a criticism of him and other activists; murderous or otherwise, then it's so stupid that it loops back around to be a criticism of the poster. Because if that's what they believe Mangione's logic was then it is 100% projection.

Like, you can apply any context for a post as nebulous as this. This could just be meant as a funny poke at Light Yagami the character. This could be meant as a jab at conservatives. This could be meant as a jab at liberals. This could be meant as a jab at so many idealogical fault lines that suggesting you have the context would require you to know the creator.

And again, it's circular fucking logic. Last time I checked Mangione's motives was a straight fucking line to killing Brian Thompson.

[–] Insekticus@aussie.zone 0 points 1 day ago

Also bad person using circular logic to redirect consequences away from themselves. Fuck OP.

[–] GreenBeard@lemmy.ca 10 points 1 day ago

Those who make peaceful redress impossible will make violence inevitable. Such has always been true. It didn't have to be this way, but it has become abundantly clear that those we used to call brothers and countrymen have decided, immutably, that our survival is incompatible with theirs. They speak of compromise, but by compromise they mean surrender and extinction. They consider us monsters, evil incarnate. They are lost to us. We have no choice but to prepare for the inevitable, and prepare hard because our survival depends on our ability to organize and mobilize resources. Pray for peace. Prepare for the worst.

[–] theuniqueone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 day ago

If by "bad person" you mean someone who helps kill millions and oppressed millions more then yes violently stopping them is not just okay but good.

[–] yesman@lemmy.world 3 points 23 hours ago

The idea that good people do good things and bad people do bad things is embarrassing for anyone over 14 to believe. Theft, murder, and rape are actions, not a race, destiny, or personality type.

Jimmy Savile seemed like a really nice guy you know.

[–] stepan@lemmy.cafe 5 points 1 day ago (1 children)

fascists should be violently murdered. otherwise, they'll murder millions including kids in their fascist wars, destroy the lives of billions, and eventually destroy the whole planet.

so yes. they are bad people and good people should wish them death.

[–] stepan@lemmy.cafe -2 points 1 day ago

this post sounds like someone is still mad about charlie kirk

[–] Godric@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

My violent murder fantasies are the sign of a healthy mind, unlike their violent murder fantasies. What? You shouldn't fantasize about murdering your enemies? Why are you defending them??? You sound like an enemy!